|Question / Comment - Can someone have their spirit saved but not their soul? Do you agree with a partial rapture?|
Right. All of the above was written before I read the pdf you sent through. So the above was written in response to your email and the website. I've now had a look at the pdf you sent (haven't read it all but I get the picture! I also had a look at the authors website and browsed an article or two. So here are my thoughts on that...
Have you see the old Clint Eastwood western 'the good, the bad and the ugly'? Reading this stuff reminded me of that title. As I started reading the pdf there were things in there that I thought were good. I would agree that there are the past/present/future aspects of salvation taught in the Bible (as mentioned above) and it can be useful to think of them as relating to the spirit, soul and body. I liked some of the illustrations he used from the Old testament. But as I read on, things started to turn 'bad' in my opinion. It is one thing to speak of the three 'aspects' of salvation. It is entirely different to separate them and say they are three different salvations. Once a person is 'saved' that involves everything but each in it's own time! As noted above the process of calling, justifying and glorifying (new body and being 'like Jesus in a perfected state which includes the entire person) is all from God and is all part of 'salvation'. Yet he writes:
Let it be forever stated: Redeemed man has come into a position from which he can never be removed. (TRUE) But this same redeemed man, in this position, is directly responsible to his Creator; and, at a future date, he will either inherit as a joint-heir with his Lord or suffer loss in the presence of his Lord. (ALL BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS ARE SONS AND ARE HEIRS THOUGH DIFFERENT REWARDS ARE GIVEN) The former will be realized through the salvation of his soul, or the latter will, instead, be realized through the loss of his soul. (SEEING HE USES SOUL/LIFE INTERCHANGEABLY, HOW CAN SOMEONE BE SAVED AND ETERNALLY SECURE AS HE RIGHTLY STATES AND ALSO LOSE THEIR LIFE?)
The Church to which Christ referred in Matt. 16:18, synonymous with
the bride — created in Christ from eternity — is presently being built
in the previous manner. (True) It is presently being removed
from the body, called out of the larger body of Christians, and built
into a bride. (No its not! All believers have been baptized into
one body 1 Cor 12:13 and are 'in Christ'. This is His Church and the
Church is the Lord's bride - Eph 5:25-27)
Arrrgh boy. Do you get much of this stuff in your church? Is it new or have they been teaching it for a while?
Personally, if it was me and they were saying the things that I've read on the website and book, I wouldn't be able to stand it. It would frustrate me to the point of anger I reckon. And if it carried on then I don't think I would be staying.
I have read your email and the links you provided. I now have more than I need (and even hoped and asked for)
Some things I found very helpful!
In the article fro, Berean Watchmen Ministries the reference to 1 Cor 15:51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed and I would say 1 Thess 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
In both these verses it does not say some of us will be caught in the air, or the overcomers will be changed No It is for all born again believers who will be alive when Christ comes to take us in the rapture
The thought I had in mind as soon as i started to read your email is that those Christians who hold these views are committing the same mistake the eldest son did in the parable of the prodigal son. To them it sounds unfair that some Christians that are worldly and remain immature will share the same benefits than them who were "always faithful". I wonder if their reaction will be the same as the oldest son when they see that they were mistaken and that all believers share the same future and blessings.
I particularly liked the link on bible.org about the outer darkness as I have the same view of the author regarding parables
"The first thing to understand about parables is that you can’t make them ‘walk on all fours.’ Every detail doesn’t necessarily correspond to some eschatological event. Parables typically have one main idea that answers some question or problem given in the preceding context. So, little details like the one where the guy is at the banquet don’t necessarily mean that he made it into heaven and then was removed. This is just rejection imagery."
I believe this is the main cause of the problem. I too see that a parable has a point to make, a general message easy to grasp and we should not try to find a meaning to every details and some hidden meanings that only a few can see. trying to do otherwise opens the door to all fancy theories.
You found much more things than I have heard. I do not know for the moment whether some people in my church believe this (and to what extent ?) But I will ask them.
As I read they are not loud on this but it still comes from time to time and what makes me most uncomfortable is the "pride in disguise" I tend to see.
Thanks for the reply.
Glad to see that the email was useful and that the links have given you a clearer grasp on truth. The trouble with teachings like this is that they are a real mixture of truth and error in my opinion. It is true that there are different rewards and our service down here will be tested and rewarded accordingly. But this does not mean that some Christians aren't part of the bride, or won't participate in the Messianic Kingdom, or 'lose their soul', or experience the second death. That is a very very wide step in the wrong direction. And when you start going down that path it leads further and further from the truth.
You don't need to write any more unless you want to. I just wanted to see how you were getting on and I'm pleased that you have a good grasp on these matters.