Readers Question / Comment - Debate/Discussion: Universal Salvation: True or False?

Jesus plus nothing is what I believe, I would like clarification on why this site implies that it is actually Jesus plus faith or understanding equals salvation. The Bible to me is clear that Jesus died for all, all died with him, he saves all and faith is not required to receive this truth.

Thanks for any response to my email for I will likely not go back on this site until I see a response through email.
God bless.

JPN Reply:

Hi,

thanks for the email. The Bible doesn't teach that He saves all or that faith is not required for salvation. Faith is not a meritorious act - it is simply the means by which a person receives salvation. Without faith it is impossible to please God scripture tells us and those who do not believe will not see salvation but remains under the sentence of God's condemnation. Jesus was clear on this and I'll highlight this truth:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
(Joh 3:14-18)

All the best.

Readers Reply:

Thanks for your response

I understand that faith or belief in Jesus is faith or belief in eventually being in salvation, but what I disagree with is that faith or belief is necessary for salvation. The scripture you gave is clear that Jesus was sent to save the world John 3:17. My issue with faith being necessary is that it implies that people that do not know Christ or babies that die will not receive salvation which is not the God I know. I do believe that faith in Christ is freedom, but if faith is necessary then deeds or works are also necessary for salvation as it says in James 2:20. 1 Tim 4:10 Says that Jesus is the savior of all men, especially those who believe. Lam 3:31 says that men are not cast off by the Lord forever, regardless of faith. Zeph 3:8,9 says that God will purify everyone to serve Him and call on Him, regardless of faith. Knowing God is a consuming fire as in Deut and Heb and that he ultimately brings all to salvation as in scriptures I mentioned, why is faith necessary for salvation still? Rom 11:32 states that God assigned all humanity over to disobedience, or unbelief; knowing this would a just, loving, merciful etc God destroy or punish for all eternity the very life he assigned this disobedience or unbelief? Lastly, I'm not saying that justice will not be served or that sin will not be punished, what I am saying is that It is safe to be in Christ before one is punished for rejecting the life they have in Christ. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Looking forward to any response concerning my two questions and God bless.


JPN Reply:

Hi,

I'll reply to your email properly later but just to clarify, you believe in Universalism - that everyone is saved not matter what do you? So you believe that the unrepentant Hitlers, rapists, child molesters etc of this world are all saved in the end. Correct? Would this include Satan and the fallen angels in your belief? You mentioned at the end of your email that there is a punishment - Scripture speaks of this and tells us that at the Great White Throne of Judgment all those that are are not written in the Lamb's book of life are judged and thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:11-15). Is this the punishment you speak of? If so, you obviously think this is temporary before they are pulled out I guess? Is that correct?

All the best.
Readers Reply:

Hello again, thanks for a reply.

I do believe everyone is ultimately in a state of salvation with the life that they have. Rev 22:15 are just those people you mentioned in your response and in Rev 22:17 it mentions to all that thirst, let them come and drink the water of life. In Luke 16:24 the rich man begs for just a bit of water and would essentially do anything for relief of his tormented state, even if it meant repenting and washing his robe as in Rev 22:14. In Luke 17:4 Jesus explains how we should forgive others and in reality that is what God is, merciful and loving even to those that do not ''deserve'' such. The punishment I speak of is falling into the hands of the living God, who is a consuming fire and probably what ultimately makes ones robe spotless. Not all will be saved from being in a state of agony, but the bible is clear that Jesus is the Savior of the World and faith only helps this process which will or has ultimately been fulfilled. I see hell or the lake of fire a method of justice to purify those who are unclean, again God is a consuming fire as it states in Hebrews and Deuteronomy. If the flood was imagery for baptism, is it not clear that the whole world was baptized for their sins except for those under the household of faith, Moses? Did Jesus not go and preach to those that died in the flood and all others after his crucifixion? Why would the Savior of the world go and preach to souls that He might later destroy or torment? You asked about Satan and the fallen angels also being in a state of salvation, to this I will not imply one way or the other. I will however give you a glimpse into the reality of Satan. Satan is not a father, not a serpent, not a lion, not an individual being separate from a conscious mind set on the flesh. You might get where I'm headed with that, believe it would only further your disagreement with me if I went into more detail about Satan. In summation of punishment, it can be everlasting if God makes it as much, but what is being punished is not the soul for everlasting punishment but the deeds the soul did would be what is burned or destroyed, yet the soul might still sense this agony for only a time and not everlasting because Jesus saves and purifies all.

Blessings and hope to hear back and soon.
JPN Reply:

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I have corresponded with Universalists before so I’m pretty familiar with the thoughts. That said, I have read your emails quite thoroughly and taken quite a lot of time (and space!) to respond. Sorry if it is too long! It is actually more than what I thought I would write so I’ll probably just leave it at this. There may be times below where I sound frustrated by what is written as we obviously don’t agree on these things. Please don’t take any of it personally. I’m not interested in trying to win an argument. Nor am I trying to put you down personally. You have been very reasonable in stating what you believe. I am only interested in whether the statements are biblical.

While not in mainstream evangelistic thought, Universalism is becoming more popular in this day. For me, this isn’t unexpected for both Jesus and the Apostle Paul warned a lot about the conditions and beliefs people would have in the last day. One specific warning from Paul comes from the last chapter or the last letter he ever wrote: 

2 Timothy 4:1-4  I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

In other words, the time will come when people would rather believe what they would like to believe (what sounds good to their ears) instead of what is sound doctrine. So I have written quite a bit in the possibly vain hope that you’ll re-examine what the Bible does teach on this subject. : ) What I thought I’d do is respond to the points you made (so I’ve put your comments in blue and then my comments under them). At the end I have added a table list of verses from the Bible with what a column for what the Bible says and what Universalists would like it to say as a way of contrast.  Here we go!

---------------

I understand that faith or belief in Jesus is faith or belief in eventually being in salvation, but what I disagree with is that faith or belief is necessary for salvation.  

The Bible is abundantly clear that faith or believing IS the requirement necessary for salvation. There are so many scriptures but let’s just consider the clear following example...

Acts 16:30-31  and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"  (31) said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you bwill be saved, you and your household." 

This couldn’t be more simple or clear. When the Jailor asks the Apostle Paul what he NEEDS TO DO to be SAVED, what MUST I DO, Paul replies BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS! This Jailor is asking the exact question we are discussing (what is necessary for salvation, what is a MUST) and Paul gives him the very answer you say you disagree with above! Believe!

Have you read that without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6) and the scripture says that anything that is not based on faith is SIN (Rom 14:23)? So how could you say that faith is not necessary for salvation??? The Bible clearly says we are saved by grace THROUGH faith (Eph 2:8) You cannot dispense with faith as a requirement for salvation.

The scripture you gave is clear that Jesus was sent to save the world John 3:17.  

Actually I gave you a whole passage, John 3:14-18. Here it is again below.

John 3:14-18  Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,  (15)  that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.  (16)  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  (17)  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.  (18)  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Yes verse 17 says that Jesus didn’t come to condemn but save the world. I agree with that. But you can’t just isolate that one verse from its context and the requirements that surround it. Verse 15 says you have to believe. Verse 16 says you have to believe. Verse 18 says you have to believe. Verse 18 adds if you don’t believe you already stand condemned. In verse 14 Jesus likens the cross to Moses lifting up the snake in the desert. And what happened there? If the people looked to the snake on the pole, they were healed and saved. If they didn’t look they were not saved but perished. Same goes in looking to Jesus in faith.

My issue with faith being necessary is that it implies that people that do not know Christ or babies that die will not receive salvation which is not the God I know.  

Two different issues here... People that have heard the message and do not accept Christ will perish and not see eternal life as the scripture says. You may not want to believe that because you’d “like” to believe something else, but it is very clear in scripture. You could even look at how the chapter we have been discussing (John 3) ends:

John 3:36  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Babies that die, aborted babies, mentally handicapped people who don’t have the capabilities to understand etc are a whole different matter. Many believe that there is an age of accountability (the age of which I would say only God can truly judge) and we leave that to Him who knows and judges all things well.

I do believe that faith in Christ is freedom, but if faith is necessary then deeds or works are also necessary for salvation as it says in James 2:20.  

This statement is based on a misunderstanding of James 2. The Bible is clear that faith is NOT works and that through works no one can be saved. 

Romans 4:5  However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

James is speaking of those the ‘profess’ or ‘say’ they have faith but show no evidence of it. More on this here if interested:http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/questions/jamesandpaulonfaith.htm

1 Tim 4:10 Says that Jesus is the savior of all men, especially those who believe.

Yes he is the Saviour of all men. There is only one saviour for all men – there is no other. Rich, poor, black, white, African, Russian... He is the saviour of and for all. He paid the price of all sin. It doesn’t mean however, as you take it, that all men accept His offer of salvation or are automatically saved. That’s why it says ‘especially those who believe’ as they are the ones who actually receive His offer of salvation. As an illustration, if you had a plane flying from one city to another you could say it is a plane for everyone, but especially for those that have purchased a ticket. It is a plane for everyone but there are conditions for getting on board! Earlier in Timothy Paul said this:

1 Timothy 2:3-6  This is good, and pleases God our Savior,  (4)  who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.  (5)  For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,  (6)  who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.

Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL men. He is the Saviour of all men and God wants all men to be saved. But that doesn’t mean they are all automatically saved for scripture also teaches that ‘they perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.’ (2 Thes 2:10)

Lam 3:31 says that men are not cast off by the Lord forever, regardless of faith.

Goodness... How about a little context? That passage is about God’s people being cast off and judged (as Jeremiah and the nation of Judah found themselves in the time of the Babylonian exile) and Jeremiah was reminding Himself that God will not cast them off forever. It has nothing to do with God saving those that aren’t His people and reject His Son. And you can’t even say it is regardless of faith because the passage leading up to it speaks of seeking God and His salvation (vs 25-26). It says ‘the Lord is good to those whose hope is in Him’ – Jeremiah is encouraging his faith in the midst of difficulty!

Zeph 3:8,9 says that God will purify everyone to serve Him and call on Him, regardless of faith.  

It has nothing to do with God saving those that aren’t His people and reject His Son. And you can’t even say it is regardless of faith because the passage leading up to it speaks of seeking God and His salvation (vs 25-26). It says ‘the Lord is good to those whose hope is in Him’ – Jeremiah is encouraging his faith in the midst of difficulty!

Knowing God is a consuming fire as in Deut and Heb and that he ultimately brings all to salvation as in scriptures I mentioned, why is faith necessary for salvation still?

The scriptures you have mentioned don’t teach what you believe. Again, faith is necessary because anything not based on faith is sin and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is not a work. It is the means by which a person accepts the gift of righteousness and salvation. You have mentioned that God is a consuming fire a few times in your emails. I could be wrong, but I think you think of it as a ‘purifying fire’ to get rid of sin before they are saved. It doesn’t say that. Hebrews tells us that those that reject Christ in this age should have

Hebrews 10:27 ‘…a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.’

What is consumed is the adversaries themselves. Not their sin.

Rom 11:32 states that God assigned all humanity over to disobedience, or unbelief; knowing this would a just, loving, merciful etc God destroy or punish for all eternity the very life he assigned this disobedience or unbelief?

Disobedience is a better translation than unbelief (which as far as I can see is only in KJV). God didn’t cause this disobedience. It is a product of the fall when He gave us free will. The Believers Bible Commentary is quite useful here:

When we first read this verse, we might get the idea that God arbitrarily condemned both Jews and Gentiles to unbelief, and that there was nothing they could do about it. But that is not the thought. The unbelief was their own doing. What the verse is saying is this: having found both Jews and Gentiles disobedient, God is pictured as imprisoning them both in that condition, so that there would be no way out for them except on His terms. This disobedience provided scope for God to have mercy on all, both Jews and Gentiles. There is no suggestion here of universal salvation.

The way out is on God’s terms and is this: God in His mercy has provided the means of salvation through faith in the person and work of the Lord Jesus. A free gift of righteousness awaits those that believe and accept this gift through faith.  

Rev 22:15 are just those people you mentioned in your response and in Rev 22:17 it mentions to all that thirst, let them come and drink the water of life.  

Verse 17 is the call to the wicked in the present age (while the bride is still saying ‘Come Lord Jesus’) to come and accept salvation. The earlier verse 15 shows the immoral in the age to come excluded from the Heavenly city. They have already rejected the call to come and have not received the free gift of the water of life. They have NOT washed their robes or been saved. That is why they are OUTSIDE the city! If you are still in any doubt about their fate, you just need to read what was said about this type of person in the preceding chapter. It has the same offer to come and receive the water of life. It defines the same class of person. But it shows what happens to the wicked and unbelieving. And it goes without saying that IT ISN”T LIFE OR UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION!

Revelation 21:6-8  He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.  (7)  He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.  (8)  But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 In Luke 16:24 the rich man begs for just a bit of water and would essentially do anything for relief of his tormented state, even if it meant repenting and washing his robe as in Rev 22:14.

Goodness... There is nothing in Jesus’ story of the rich man and Lazarus that indicates that the rich man, having died and been judged, can now repent or wash his robes. It actually teaches the exact opposite! That he cannot get out of this place of torment to tell his brothers and warn them not to come here. It is emphasising that THIS LIFE is where our decision are to be made. In the next it is too late to change our fate.

In Luke 17:4 Jesus explains how we should forgive others and in reality that is what God is, merciful and loving even to those that do not ''deserve'' such.  The punishment I speak of is falling into the hands of the living God, who is a consuming fire and probably what ultimately makes ones robe spotless. Not all will be saved from being in a state of agony, but the bible is clear that Jesus is the Savior of the World and faith only helps this process which will or has ultimately been fulfilled.

Sounds like some kind of Catholic ‘purgatory’ idea – which is again not biblical. Jesus is the world’s Saviour. But most reject Him and His salvation. Broad is the road that leads to destruction. Don’t forget that. Narrow is the road that leads to life and few are those that find it. Not my words, but those of Jesus.

I see hell or the lake of fire a method of justice to purify those who are unclean, again God is a consuming fire as it states in Hebrews and Deuteronomy.

I’m not trying to be horrible but that is purely what you would ‘like’ to believe. I challenge you to look up all the verses that speak of the lake of fire (or hell) and see whether the Bible speaks of ‘purifying’ (or anything like it) or anyone coming out of it. Here are the verses about the lake of fire:

Rev 19:20 – The antichrist and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire
Rev 20:10 – A thousand years later, Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the antichrist and false prophet ARE (a thousand years later!)
Rev 20:14-15 - Hades is thrown into the lake. Anyone who is not written into the Lamb’s book of life is thrown in there. It is called THE SECOND DEATH. Death... not a time of purifying before coming out. The second death.
Rev 21:8 – The immoral, unbelieving are thrown into the lake of fire. Again it is called the second death. No thought what so ever of it being a time of purification.  

The first death all mankind face is physical – our physical bodies die. The second death is spiritual and eternal. As the old saying goes – ‘Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once’. No one ‘likes’ the thought of Hell. I don’t. But the question is not what we like but what is true.

If the flood was imagery for baptism, is it not clear that the whole world was baptized for their sins except for those under the household of faith, Moses?  

You’ve got the wrong people being baptised. It is actually the complete opposite. The New Testament speaks of two events from the Old Testament that are types or imagery of baptism – The flood in the time of Noah and the Red Sea ‘baptism’. Here are the verses and please note WHO WAS BAPTISED:

1 Peter 3:18-21  For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;  (19)  in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,  (20)  who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.  (21)  Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The ones that were saved through the water were the ones that were ‘baptised’ – ie the 8 people in the ark. The rest rejected the message, were not saved and perished! It is a picture of how it will be in the end. Again, you are saying the opposite of what the Bible says. The baptism is of those that are saved, not those that perish.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4  For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;  (2)  and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;  (3)  and all ate the same spiritual food;  (4)  and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Concerning the Red Sea baptism, this teaches the same thing. It was the Israelites (our fathers Paul says) that went through the sea that were baptised ‘into Moses’. The following Egyptian army perished and certainly isn’t said to have been baptised! Only judged.

Did Jesus not go and preach to those that died in the flood and all others after his crucifixion?  Why would the Savior of the world go and preach to souls that He might later destroy or torment?

Do you know where the Bible says that he went and preached to ‘all others’ after His crucifixion? I know of no such verse. Concerning the flood there is the passage in 1 Peter  3:19-20. This is a passage that is not straight forward and commentators have differing opinions on what is being taught here. Some think it was through the Spirit at the time of Noah that the preaching was done. Others think it was between Jesus’ death and resurrection. Those that believe the later generally agree that it was a proclamation that was made and not an offer of salvation. There is also disagreement over who the ‘spirits’ actually are... men? Fallen angels from the time of Noah? Either way it doesn’t teach that everyone is saved.  

You asked about Satan and the fallen angels also being in a state of salvation, to this I will not imply one way or the other.  I will however give you a glimpse into the reality of Satan.  Satan is not a father, not a serpent, not a lion, not an individual being separate from a conscious mind set on the flesh. You might get where I'm headed with that, believe it would only further your disagreement with me if I went into more detail about Satan.

“Not an individual being separate from a conscious mind set on the flesh???” OK. Yes I agree – going into more detail will further our disagreement! : ) I guess there is no point it pointing out that Satan comes before God in the book of Job, speaks with God, then leaves to afflict Job and is very much is an individual being separate from a mind set on the flesh?   Or that Hell itself was made for Satan and his angels after they fell?  

In summation of punishment, it can be everlasting if God makes it as much, but what is being punished is not the soul for everlasting punishment but the deeds the soul did would be what is burned or destroyed, yet the soul might still sense this agony for only a time and not everlasting because Jesus saves and purifies all. 

So it terms of everlasting punishment, it is the deeds that are punished eternally but not the soul itself in your opinion? Kind of begs the question how do you punish a lie? How do you burn pride or place greed in the fire? How do you punish sexual immorality itself or lust or hatred? Obviously this doesn’t make sense. It is the person committing these things that is to blame and is punished. You may not like the thought but at least acknowledge it is biblical. The same Greek word is used of the punishment that the wicked experience (not their deeds) as what the righteous receive – “eternal” in English. One is eternal punishment and one is eternal life.

Matthew 25:46  "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

In conclusion, I ask that you read through these scriptures to contrast what scripture says with what Universalists would prefer it to say. It is simply another way in which I hope you may re-examine what you believe.

What scripture says

What Universalists would like scripture to say

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that everyone shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

Matthew 13:49-50  This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:49-50  This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous, maybe punish the wicked a bit and then join them back together in Heaven as they are all God’s children.

Matthew 7:13-14  Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 7:13-14  Enter through the wide gate. For wide is the gate and broad and all-inclusive is the road that leads to life because of my coming death.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They might be punished, but not with everlasting destruction and certainly won’t be shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

John 3:36  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 3:36  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will also receive eternal life."

Revelation 20:11-15  Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it… And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books… each person was judged according to what he had done… The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. 

Revelation 20:11-15  Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it… And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books… each person was judged according to what he had done… The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire but they won’t be affected by the second death and will still be saved.
 

Galatians 5:19-21  The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Galatians 5:19-21  The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. But always remember that God loves and accepts all into His kingdom.

John 5:28-29  "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,  and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

John 5:28-29  "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,  and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds… well they are raised to life as well.
 

Luke 12:4-5  I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.  (5)  But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Luke 12:4-5  I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.  (5)  But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Of course I am only speaking hypothetically as He would never do that.

 

Luke 13:23-27  Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'  Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'  But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

 

Luke 13:23-27  Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, “Of course not. Have you not heard that I will reconcile everyone back to God?”

Matthew 25:31-46  When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.  Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world…  Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels… Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

Matthew 25:31-46  When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.  Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world…  Then he will say to those on his left, God is love and so you can also enter the kingdom Then they will go away to eternal life along with the righteous.

John 8:24  I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

 

John 8:24  I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins. But I’ve paid for those sins even if you don’t believe so it will be ok in the end.”

 

John 20:30-31  Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

John 20:30-31  Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that everyone, no matter what they believe or do, will find eternal life.

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, "All ways eventually lead to the Father in the end.”

 

Acts 16:27-31  And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, "Do yourself no harm, for we are all here." Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

Acts 16:27-31  And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, "Do yourself no harm, for we are all here." Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Nothing. Why would you put a condition on salvation?"

 

Romans 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

 

Romans 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone. Full stop.

 

Acts 13:46  Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

 

Acts 13:46  Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. But don’t fear for God will give you everlasting life anyway.

Ephesians 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Ephesians 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith, or through nothing if there is no faith.
 

Mark 16:15-16  And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.  He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

 

Mark 16:15-16  And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature telling them that I have saved them all without any desire, will, or faith necessary on their part now required. None will be condemned.

 

All the best.

Readers Reply:

Thanks for your response and hope this has not ended after this email reply.

I have come to realize that all will reach a salvation through the teachings of the Bible and Spirit of God. I have prayed for wisdom many times and seems that I do receive when I ask and when I stop asking I stop receiving this wisdom. You mentioned 2 Tim 4:1-4 and it seems that you have put me under this umbrella, keep in mind that what I have argued for is mostly from the Bible which we can both agree is a spiritual book that can lead one to a better understanding of what we deem a true reality of realities. I, for many years, also believed as you do that not all will have salvation, but only those who are judged to receive this gift may have everlasting life. My mind quickly changed in this matter when I was prompted by the only true Spirit in me to question my belief in this matter. It only took a moment in time before I was convinced that I was wrong all along and religions want to put people under fear. I have grown so much, even to know that the only true God is actually glorified in every religion that works in love. This might be a bit lengthy but hope that you can come to a better understanding of the only true God and part of his purpose for humanity. I could make it very long but will refrain for now.

I enjoy your response to this discussion and will start off where you did, you mentioned Acts 16:30-31 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" (31) said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." It is an obvious situation in which a man knows another man has God and wants to know what he must do to be saved. I wonder why this man, that probably did not believe he had God already inside of him, would ask this question unless his mind was condemning him. Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and IN ALL. Paul was right and loving to tell this man of Jesus for this would remove the condemnation Satan put in his mind. What Paul did not imply is that he would be in a state everlasting destruction if he did not believe in Jesus. Paul indicated that he would be saved by simply believing in the Lord, this set the man free. Believing in Jesus does set a person free from condemnation in their own mind, lack of a belief in Jesus can lead one far astray to reality and life. Lastly on this, Paul said to believe on Jesus to be saved, there are many types of realities this can mean, I see this as being saved from self condemnation. I also believe that one will reach salvation and not be saved from many things like Gods punishments or self condemnations. I can't see how you could disagree with this. Even if you disagree with any part of my comments, I still love you. :)

Have you read that without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6) and the scripture says that anything that is not based on faith is SIN (Rom 14:23)? So how could you say that faith is not necessary for salvation??? The Bible clearly says we are saved by grace THROUGH faith (Eph 2:8) You cannot dispense with faith as a requirement for salvation.

This seems clear to me that you have misunderstood me, I did not say that faith, belief, understanding, wisdom, etc is not necessary to be saved, only that it is not necessary for salvation. Again, faith can save someone from many things, but it is not necessary for ones salvation, the only thing that is necessary for salvation is God. If faith is necessary for salvation then Jesus wasn't necessary...

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

There is that word eternal again, funny how the Bible leads people astray. The second part of this verse is a little more tricky, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. The best way to see this is that if a person does reject Christ they will have to pay for their sins in order to obtain the once free gift of life in Christ. Lets look at a parable Jesus gave for just this person.
Mat 5:25-26 "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." Does not sound like a fun place to be. Thank you Jesus! "Will not see life" is referring to rejecting Christ, good thing it is not permanent for Christ will not allow that. The one that rejects Christ in this life will likely have to pay for their sins, even see the second death in the lake of fire. Christians are to die twice, so should those who reject Christ. On a side note, I deem it true that I will die or be transformed many times, perhaps more than I can count. An actual eternity in the same form is not what I see God doing with me. I believe that a trillion years in a single form or state of being is not even a blip on the scale of eternity. God is far to brilliant for my next form to be my final form. I will continue being transformed from glory to glory even after this present age is over, all glory to God...

Your response [about Noah's flood and baptism] was a bit lengthy, you understand it differently but when you really look deep into my text, you will see salvation for all who die for their sins. I hope you agree that all will be resurrected, I hope you also agree that those who died in the flood paid the penalty for sin, Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Those who did not die in the flood were not baptized with water but with faith like Noah. Why would water be used to indicate death and baptism if it didn't have meaning corresponding to those that died in the flood?...

JPN final comment on the correspondance above:

There was more to the email above than I have included here. As I had indicated in my previous email to this man, I wrote what I considered to be the main points as to why Universal Salvation is CLEARLY WRONG, including a lot of scripture, and left it at that. Having received his reply it was clear that there was no point in just carrying on as neither of us were going to change the mind of the other even remotely. But as you can see from his last email above, Bible terms and meanings get flipped around with those that believe in Universal Salvation. For example:

  • The Jailor who cried out to Paul asking what he must do to be saved is, according to the thinking of this Universalist above, just asking how he can be saved from his own self-condemnation!
  • According to that stated above, faith may be neccessary to be saved, but faith is not neccesary for salvation. Clearly language doesn't mean much anymore. 'Saved' and 'salvation' are two different things now are they?
  • He wrote: 'If faith is necessary for salvation then Jesus wasn't necessary' - I guess there is little point in stating that a person's faith isn't in dinosaurs or UFO's but is actually in the person and work of the Lord Jesus. That kinda makes Him necessary!
  • He wrote about John 3:36 'if a person does reject Christ they will have to pay for their sins in order to obtain the once free gift of life in Christ'. That was right up until the word 'sins'. Paying for your sins is paying for your sins. It isn't obtaining salvation. You certainly can't obtain salvation this way! John 3:36 clearly states that such a person 'will not see life' and God's wrath 'remains on him'. It's hardly a promise that rejecting Christ and paying for your own sins obtains salvation! This is just nonsense.
  • He wrote: 'I deem it true that I will die or be transformed many times, perhaps more than I can count.' The Bible says it is appointed unto man to die once (physically) and then face judgement. The second death is spiritual separation from God and is final.
  • He wrote: 'but when you really look deep into my text (of the flood judgement in the days of Noah), you will see salvation for all who die for their sins.' Note how it is all swapped around. The wicked apparently gain salvation from being judged in the flood.

The correspndant was and is a nice guy on a personal level. But in my opinion so much of what was written flips the truth around and sounds suspeciously like the age old question to age old Biblical truth 'Has God really said...' Beware of those that state that everyone receives salvation. It may tickle the ears but comes from the Father of lies.