Is there a pretrib rapture? Or is Jesus returning once or twice?

JPN Reply

Hi, and thanks for the email. I'll quote your questions below and then add my reply.

If you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture theory, are you, in essence, saying that Jesus is coming back at the end times two times and not once and for all?

Yes that is correct. The disciples at the time of Jesus' first coming were confused because they didn't realise that the Messiah (Jesus) would come firstly to die for our sins and then later as the reigning King from Jerusalem. A similar confusion exists amongst those that try to make all the scriptures of Jesus' return fit into one coming at the end of the tribulation. The Church has been promised several times that it will not experience the wrath of God and that is what the tribulation is. If you know of a scripture that says that Jesus has to come 'once and for all' I'm all ears. But bear in mind that the two comings are different - the first is 'for his bride' to take them to the place that He has prepared (John 14:1-3). The second is what we normal speak of as his second coming. This is the coming 'with His bride' (Rev 19:14) to deliver Israel and judge the Antichrist and the nations.

I thought we saints were supposed to endure UNTIL THE END not be taken away before the real battle begins.

Can I ask what scriptures you base that on please? The Church is not appointed to wrath but to receive salvation. The whole tribulation period is often called 'Daniels 70th Week' (from Daniel chapter 9). It is a time set aside by God to deal with the nation of Israel to bring them back to Himself and to force those in the world to decide who they will worship. This is seen in the book of Revelation which describes the tribulation period in chapters 6-19. The only mention of the church is where the bride is seen in Heaven, having made herself ready before the Lord even returns.

Why is there so very much disagreement regarding this??

Like just about any topic in Christianity, there are people on all sides of the debate. As a generalization however, I would say that a lot of people are confused on this topic because they don't see that God still has unfinished business with the nation of Israel, to prove Himself faithful to that which He has promised them, despite their disobedience. The seven year period is the last portion of Daniels 70 weeks that God has set aside to deal with the nation of Israel as mentioned above.

If we are raptured out of this world before the tribulation begins, then only unsaved people will be left - then why battle at all?? Those people belong to Satan anyway. Why not just let him have his way and keep Jesus out of it?

Sorry. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying or questioning here. If you are asking why the battle in the tribulation, then the answer is that it is the period of God's wrath upon an unbelieving complacent world. It will bring people to a decision time... are they going to side with the antichrist and worship Him, or are they going to side with God and be saved. Revelation tells us that an immeasurable number from every nation and tribe will be saved during this time. Some believe that this is the result of the specially sealed work of the 144,000 Jewish men mentioned in Rev 7.

All the best

Hi,

Thanks for the reply and I have added some notes below your comments in blue...

Matthew 24:

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It is important to read the context of this scripture (well, any scripture!). What is it's context? It is very Jewish in nature. We know from other scriptures that the entire world will eventually come against Israel (See Zech chapter 12 and 14). As I have mentioned before, there is a 7 year period still left where God will deal with Israel to bring them back to Himself. This last seven years is split into 2 periods of 3 1/2 years each. (Daniel 9:27) Now back to Matt 24 -

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Now, from Matt 24 we see that Jesus is against speaking of this time. He is talking to those who will see the 'abomination of desolation' as was mentioned in Daniel 9. This event is the antichrist putting himself in a rebuild Jewish temple and proclaiming himself to be God. (See 2 Thes 2:1-4). It is the Jews that will see this. That is why Jesus carries on saying those in Judea should run for their lives at this point. And also to pray it doesn't take place on a Sabbath. This is not for the Church as we are not under the Sabbath as a law. Those Jews that make it to the end of the 7 year period will be saved physically by the return of Jesus who will fight against the antichrist and the nations that attack Israel. Zech also tells us that 2/3 of Israel will die during this period. (See Zech 13:7-9)

It also has meaning for those that come to believe in the Lord during the tribulation... and there will be many Revelation 7 shows us!

ALSO If the saints had already been "raptured" away, what does the following verse mean?
Rev. 9:4 “They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”

Revelation 7:1-8 tells us who these people are. They are 144,000 believers from the 12 tribes of Israel that God will use during this time. They are specially sealed so that the plagues cannot touch them.

All the best.