Question / Comment - Does Zeitgeist, Zodiac mumbo jumbo proves
Christianity a fraud?
Are you familiar with astrology and the Zodiac? Almost all of the important events in the life of Jesus (birth, death, resurrection, etc.) can be directly tied to astrology and the Zodiac calendar. Even the cross with with the circle around it is actually a pagan symbol that stems from the Zodiac. The fact is, almost all ancient religions have ties to the Zodiac and astrology. Why? Because back then, people could track the movement of the stars in the sky and often made elaborate stories to explain why things happened. There is a lot of information regarding this and I don't really feel like going in depth with it, but if you are interested, here is a 10 minute video that does a pretty good job of explaining it all...
Most Christians, however, choose to remain ignorant to these facts and prefer not to accept information that might prove everything they have known about their savior to be wrong. Although some trivial facts in the movie turn out to be false ("horus is risen" = horizon, Jesus being born 12/25, etc.) if you research, the meat and potatoes are all true. Of course, you may write it off as just some YouTube video, but I have looked up many of the facts and they all hold true. The clips are from www.zeitgeistmovie.com which is an excellent film I would suggest anyone watch.
I have yet to have a firm believing Christian watch this video and continue debating with me (out of three total), but maybe you will be different. I sure hope so, because I am very interested to know what a true firm believing Christian thinks about this information.
I watched the Zeitgeist video you mentioned. As I watched I thought surely this can't be true??? I had previously read about some of the old myths but hadn't seen what this video was telling me. They're all born of a virgin? 25th Dec? With 12 disciples? Crucified? Resurrected after 3 days? Surely that can't be true I thought??? But here was this flashy video telling me it was through it's quick little bullet points.
So I had a look at their stories in an online encyclopedia which seemed like an easy place to start. For example, you can look up Krishna here -
The Zeitgeist video made this claim about Krishna:
Born 25th Dec,
To a virgin,
Check out the encyclopedia, which is based on the Mahabharata, the Harivamsa, the Bhagavata
Purana and the Vishnu
Purana. You will find that Krishna was born 19th or 21st July 3328 BC (not 25th Dec), he was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki and her husband Vasudeva (being the eight son is no virgin birth!). He dies by being shot in the foot by a hunter who mistook him for a deer while he meditated under a tree. That's no crucifixion! As for the resurrection, the Mahabharara Book 16,4 says that when the hunter touched his foot he forgave the hunter and ascended upwards.
So far, what I have found about the video is a disgrace, put out as an internet video to severely slant the truth to make one thing seem like something totally different. But, as you asked me to research it, I carried on and looked at Horus. The main points the movie said about him were being crucified, dead for three days, resurrected. I looked... Horus is never said to have been crucified or dead three days that I can find. As for a resurrection, one site said:
"The only connection we can make to Horus being resurrected is if we consider the eventual merger of Horus and Osiris. But such a theory results in an catch 22, apparently noticed by the Egyptians as they later altered their beliefs to fix the contradictions. In the Egyptian tale, Osiris is either dismembered by Set in battle or sealed in a chest and drowned in the Nile. Isis then pieces Osiris' body back together and resurrects Osiris to conceive an heir that will avenge Osiris' death (although technically Osiris is never actually resurrected as he is forbidden to return to the world of the living)."
Others have gone further and also said Horus had a virgin birth, 12 disciples etc. Again, this is rubbish. Apparently most of these come from a book called The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S. Although she just got her information from a man called Gerald Massey. The following link has email correspondence between an ex-Atheist and Acharya S where she states that her source is Gerald Massey and that the information is not generally found in any encyclopedias!!! How convenient!
This ex-Atheist has been quite thorough and has a site that shows the errors perpetuated by the copycat Christ-Mythers who don't go back to original sources but just quote each other. At least he goes back to the original source material. If you are interested, have a look here:
So I had a look at Attis who the video states was born 25 Dec, to a virgin, crucified for three days and then resurrected. Here is the story of Attis from Wikipedia:
"The story of his origins from Agdistis, as told to the traveller Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana who was a daughter of the river Sangarios picked the fruit and laid it in her bosom. It at once disappeared, but she was with child. In time her son was born and exposed on the hillside, but the infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay. (Pausanias, Greece, 7.19) Attis was reborn as the evergreen pine."
Wow! That is so much like the story of Jesus it's spooky! Ok, I'll try keep from lauging at all this. Apparently Attis' birth is associated with the annual return of spring, not the 25th Dec (although other mythilogical deities do use the 25th Dec but that wasn't the date of Jesus' birth anyway). I haven't found anything about the 25th Dec for Attis. And as one site says: "While Attis was conceived non-sexually, no texts make the claim that Nana was a virgin." As for his death, he wasn't crucified - He castriated himself under a pine tree after going insane. His blood flows onto the ground from his severed organ and brings forth a patch of violets." How lovely! There is also no resurrection unless you consider him becoming a pine tree after his death a resurrection!
As one site correctly said concerning the supposed Jesus - Attis link: "The only things we really see going on with poor Attis is a whole lot of genitalia-mutilation, pine tree resurrections, and river descendants bearing children from nuts... Nuts certainly comes to mind regarding whoever put these two figures together.
It really it shocking that a video could be put out like this and deceive so many who don't do their homework. Even you told me:
Christians, however, choose to remain ignorant to these facts and prefer not to
accept information that might prove everything they have known about their savior
to be wrong. Although some trivial facts in the movie turn out to be false
("horus is risen" = horizon, Jesus being born 12/25, etc.) if you
research, the meat and potatoes are all true. Of course, you may write it off as
just some YouTube video, but I have looked up many of the facts and they all hold
The meat and potatoes are all true??? Yeah right! You told me that you believed in science and were not brain washed with fairy tales like Christians and yet here you are saying that you have looked up many of the facts of this video and they all hold true! Sure, they do a nice video with eary music, and quick bullet points but the content is rubbish! As someone who "believes in science and not fairy tales" I would have expected some better research.
Have a look at the following site which at least does a good job of providing links to the original source material so that people can look this stuff up for themsleves. It goes into most of the so-called links and has others not mentioned thus far like Mithra etc:
As for the second video you asked me to watch about the Bible links to Astrology... Personally I found it laughable. Well, I would if people weren't getting sucked it by it. Where shall I start? Well, the video claims, through some secret knowledge they have, that Moses was angry with the Israelites when he descended from the mountain because he represented the new age of Aries the ram that started in 2150 BC and here the Israelites were worshipping the old age of the bull. That, my friend, really is bull! Here is what the Bible says:
Exodus 32: 1,7-8 "When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him."... 7 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’
It's not complicated. Moses was angry because they had made an idol from what they knew in their time in Eqypt which they were saying was their god! How quickly they had deserted the true God and broken his commandments! It is nothing to do with the age of Aries or Taurus. Even the date is wrong. This event of the exodus was approx 1400 BC. Not 2150 BC when the age of Aries was meant to have come in..
As for Jesus feeding people with fish on one occasion and having some disciples that were formerly fisherman... well that is clearly a direct link to the age of Pisces! This kind of "fact" is so terrible it is truly laughable. They then go on to say that in Luke 22:10 the disciples ask Jesus where the next Passover will be when he is gone and he talks about a man with a pitcher of water. The video says "this scripture is by far one of the most revealing of all the astrological references."
In actual fact, all it does reveal is how far people like this will go to distort facts to their own advantage. Here is the passage from the Bible in Luke 22:10-13. Please read it for yourself:
"Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover."9 "Where do you want us to prepare for it?" they asked. 10 He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 12 He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there."13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
The videos claim that the disciples were asking Jesus where the next Passover will be after he is gone. Where is that in the text? It is simply not true. They were asking about the Passover they were about to eat as the text above shows. Obviously this doesn't meet with what the makes of the video want to say so they change it to be some future event when the age of Aquarius comes in. That is just plain deception. It isn't even twisting the truth - it is ignoring the truth and stating something totally different. Next, all Jesus told them was to look for a man with a jar, or pitcher, of water, and follow him because they'll be able to use his master house to prepare the Passover meal. And from that the video says this is an image of Aquarius pouring out water and symbolizes the age of Aquarius??? No, it's just a man with some water that they follow and start making preparations for the Passover which they take together! And this is what the video states as 'this scripture is by far one of the most revealing of all the astrological references'!!! Unbelievable. Please... you're probably an intelligent man. Don't buy into this rubbish! It is truly terrible and will only confuse and get past those that don't know the Bible.
WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
Now, obviously the complete Zeitgeist makes many other claims. I would ask you, please, watch the following video. It is long at 1 hour and a half but it is a refutation of the Zeitgeist movie (the part about Christianity anyway). If you truly are somebody that desires to know the truth then I would ask that you watch this video and examine the links on this email. Then you will have been presented with evidence on both sides of the argument and can make up your own mind.
Some general comments about this movie are here:
I would also add that as opposed to the obvious myths and crazy stories of Horus, Attis, Dionysus etc, there is plenty of evidence outside of Christian sources for the life of Jesus. Have a look here:
So that is what I have found. Obviously I am no expert on these things and I don't assume to be one. I have only researched this since you sent me your email. But what I have found so far is actually quite disturbing in the differences in what the video presents as truth and what is actual fact when you read the original stories.
I asked you in my previous email to look into Bible prophecy. You replied and told me to research into the claims of this video. I have done that. So I ask in return that you please examine Bible prophecy. Start with the links on my site that I gave you or check out other sites which do a better job than I do such as:
Find a Bible. Read the passages mentioned for yourself. God expects us, as it says it His word, to 'test all things and hold onto that which is good'.
All the best.